NOMADIC VOICES – SARDINIA/MONGOLIA – “DILLU”

NOMADIC VOICES – SARDINIA/MONGOLIA – “DILLU”

41,669 views•Nov 8, 2015 8633ShareSavemarsabmusic 893 subscribers LIVE IN ETHNO KRAKOW, 9 july 2015 NOMADIC VOICES THE SONGS OF SARDINIAN TENORES AND THE DIPHONIC MONGOLIAN CHANT CUNCORDU E TENORE DE OROSEI MEETS MONGOLIAN SINGERS TS. TSOGTGEREL ET N. GANZORING In the heart of countryside still considered sacred, the harsh beauty of the Sardinian mountains meets the vast steppes through the polyphony of the Tenores and Khoomii overtone chants. Within the confines of the sacred and the profane, somewhere between liturgy and peasant celebrations, these voices resonate in the heights of Sardinian mountains. It is there that the beauty of a pastoral culture is still to be found. The Sardinian polyphonies date back to the Nuragic age when these nuraghi or round towers were built, in the form of truncated cones. These megalithic edifices remain the symbol of this age between 1900 and 730 years BCE (between the bronze and iron ages). Beyond these towards other mountains equally sacred since prehistoric times, those of the Gobi-Altai steppes, where the Altai mountains meet the immense Gobi desert, legend has it that overtone chant was born. Here it is known as Khoomii, meaning larynx. It is accompanied by the morin-khuur or khiil-khuur, the horse head fiddle of the poet and sootsayer. Overtone chant is a musical metaphor for this land: the hilltops and the valleys, the vastness of the steppes, the herds, the tumult of nature, its rumbles and its murmurs, the galloping horses and the rustling of its wind grasses. Surprisingly, in the heart of these two traditions, we find the instrument known as the guimbarde or Jew’s harp, an instrument familiar to nomadic shepherds all over the world. This original work highlights the richness of these vocal techniques of people who belong to the same history of mankind and who are the last witnesses of ancient times when man knew how to be one with nature. (Alain Weber)

Alash Ensemble – “Ediski deg Boostaamny”

Alash Ensemble – “Ediski deg Boostaamny”

13,795 views•Mar 25, 2019 4021ShareSaveBeehive Productions 4.09K subscribers Alash Ensemble – “Ediski deg Boostaamny” (My Throat, the Cuckoo) Ayan-ool Sam – Vocals Ayan Shirizhik – Vocals Bady-Dorzhu Ondar – Vocals, doshpuulur A Beehive Field Recording Captured live at Folk Alliance International in Montréal QC, 2019 This song is an old Tuvan tune re-worked by Alash, comparing the singer’s voice to birds and celebrating the awesomeness of Tuvan music in general. Alash are performing in their native Tuvan in a style called “Throat Singing” which is a remarkable technique for singing multiple pitches at the same time. The Ensemble is known internationally for their mastery of both Tuvan throat singing and traditional Tuvan instruments like the doshpuulur seen here. https://www.alashensemble.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alashensemble/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alashensemble/ Folk Alliance International: https://www.folk.org/ —- Captured with Peluso Microphone Lab P-414 pair http://www.PelusoMicrophoneLab.com

Tuvan Ensemble – Live Performance

Tuvan Ensemble – Live Performance

адлукток т.

адлукток т. 6 months ago Song List 0:00 – “Чин Соортукчулеринин Ыры” Chin Soortukchulerinin (Песня караванщиков/Song of the Caravans) 6:30 – “Курай Ыры” Kurai Yry 11:15 – “Эзир-Кара” Ezir-Kara (Орел вороной/Black Eagle) 14:45 – “Чавыдак” Chavydak 16:33 – “Авам Манап Олур-Ла Боор” Avam Manap Olur-La Boor (Ждет Меня Мама/My Mom Is Waiting For Me) 23:33 – “Арбын Оссун” Arbyn Ossun (Пусть Растет и Умножается/Let It Grow and Multiply) 26:59 – “Кокей Нойян” Kokey Noyan 30:38 – “Сыгыт Ыры” Sygyt Yry (Sygyt Song) 33:01 – “Соло На Хомусе” Solo Na Khomus (Solo on the Khomus (Jawharp)) 37:10 – “Дембилдей” Dembildey 40:25 – “Кожамыктар” Kozhamyktar 43:59 – Eki Attar (Good Horses) 46:54 – “Бай-Ла-Тайгам” Bai-La-Taigam (Богатая Тайга/Rich Taiga) 56:05 – “Хоомейнин Ыры” Khoomeinin Yry (Khoomei Song) 58:33 – “Эрте Шагдан Чуртум Чуве” Erte Shagdan Churtum Chuvye (Родина Моя с Начала Времен/My Homeland Since the Beginning of Time) 1:04:10 – “Декей-Оо” Dekei-Oo 1:06:12 – “Култегиннин Кайгызы” Kulteginnin Kaigyzy (Зов Кюль-Тегина/Call of Kyul-Tegina)

Danse et Chant diphonique Mongol et Musique Mongol – Festival couleur du monde à Pujols

Danse et Chant diphonique Mongol et Musique Mongol – Festival couleur du monde à Pujols

716 views•Nov 22, 2014 20ShareSaveCelmo 71 1.77K subscribers Chant diphonique mongol Au Festival Couleur du Monde à Pujols (France 47) Aout 2014 mon site spécial lecture http://leblogdecelmo.e-monsite.com/ mon site spécial voyage http://les-voyages-de-celmo.e-monsite… Instagram : https://instagram.com/celmo71/

“FOURSTYLES” | Anna-Maria Hefele | Pixners BACKstage 2015

“FOURSTYLES” | Anna-Maria Hefele | Pixners BACKstage 2015

29,088 views•Oct 14, 2015 3298ShareSavePixners BACKstage 2.35K subscribers Pixners BACKstage 2015 http://www.servustv.com/pixnersbackstage FOURSTYLES | Anna-Maria Hefele Januar 2015 | Ausstrahlung Juni 2015 Pixners BACKstage bei Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pixnersbacks… Servus TV: https://www.servustv.com Produziert von: pixner productions | ammira | 2015 im Auftrag von Servus TV

Stéphane Fougère: Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN – The Art of Mongolian Khöömii (Throat Singing)

Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN – The Art of Mongolian Khöömii (Throat Singing)

Stephane FougereLaisser un commentaire

Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN – The Art of Mongolian Khöömii (Throat Singing) (ARCMusic)
BayarbaatarDavasuren-ArtofMongoliankhoomi

Il peut paraître étrange de consacrer un CD à un artiste mondialement réputé pour son talent de… danseur. Natif de la région de Gobi-Altaï, en Mongolie et issu d’une famille d’éleveurs de chameaux, Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN a appris la danse auprès des meilleurs professeurs de Mongolie, a suivi des cours de chorégraphie, a consacré son mémoire de maîtrise aux particularités de la danse mongole, a enseigné la danse et la chorégraphie à l’Université des arts et de la culture à Ulan-Bator, s’est formé également à la danse contemporaine et est actuellement chorégraphe général de l’Ensemble national académique de chant et de danse.

Mais pour asseoir sa notoriété en tant que promoteur des arts traditionnels mongols en Asie, en Europe et aux États-Unis, il a également appris à jouer de nombreux instruments musicaux mongols, et étudié le khöömei, le chant diphonique local, dont il est devenu un haut représentant, au point d’être récompensé en 2008 en tant que meilleur chanteur de khöömei, entre autres distinctions…

Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN est donc un artiste complet, et a donc le profil idéal pour jouer les ambassadeurs culturels dans le monde. Du reste, c’est à lui que l’on doit la reconnaissance par l’Unesco de la danse mongole nommée Bii Bielgee et du chant diphonique dans le patrimoine culturel universel.

Ce CD dévoile donc tous les talents musicaux et vocaux de Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN, en même temps qu’il expose les différents styles d’expression artistiques de la tradition mongole. Les chants mongols se divisent en chants courts (bogino duu) et en chants longs (urtyn duu), ces dénominations ne désignant pas nécessairement la durée d’un chant, mais plutôt le temps d’énonciation des mots. Si le bogino duu se caractérise par son rythme enlevé et régulier et est traditionnellement interprété lors des activités ménagères, l’urtyn duu (ou maagtal) comporte des mélodies plus ornementées, des variations rythmiques, un type de composition plus libre, d’allure plus épique, et nécessite une tessiture vocale plus étendue ; il se joue lors des fêtes et célébrations rituelles dans les communautés nomades.

On en trouve plusieurs exemples dans le répertoire de cet album : une flamboyante apologie de Gengis KHAN (Ih Khaanii Duulai), un non moins resplendissant éloge des sommets des montagnes Khangaï (Gurvan Sharlin Nuruu Magtaal) ou encore une oraison dédiée à la yourte nomadique (Magtaal Ger), autant de repères inévitables de la culture, de la géographie et de la société mongoles.

Sur une bonne partie de ces chants, Bayarbaatar DAVAASUREN joue alternativement de la vièle morin-khuur et du luth tovshuur, et nous gratifie d’une pièce instrumentale jouée à la guimbarde en bambou (Hulsan Huur) suivie d’une improvisation à la guimbarde métallique (Tumur Huur) qui laisseront pantois plus d’un auditeur. Le seul instrument auquel il ne touche pas est la cithare yatga, jouée sur les deux premiers morceaux par une musicienne fort douée avec qui Bayarbaatar a souvent joué, Chinbat BAASANKHUU, et auteure d’un disque paru chez ARC Music en 2014 (voir notre chronique). Les deux artistes ont également enregistré ensemble un disque paru chez Frémeaux & Associés.

Les quatre derniers morceaux de ce disque sont exclusivement a capella. DAVAASUREN y déploie toutes ses facultés au khöömi (chant diphonique, ou chant de gorge), et nous gratifie là encore d’une improvisation (Tengeriin Duu) dédiée aux éléments naturels particulièrement inspirée, homérique et saisissante, suivie par d’autres chants khöömei non moins impressionnants, et qui évoquent un paysage, un sentiment de déréliction ou encore la beauté d’un cheval, soit des éléments là aussi caractéristiques de la vie traditionnelle mongole.

Les enregistrements ont été effectués en France, dans la périphérie de Lyon, à l’abbaye cistercienne de Noirlac, un cadre qui n’a donc rien de “typique” (le khöömei est généralement interprété en plein air ou dans une yourte), mais qui est particulièrement adapté pour déployer les harmoniques du khöömei et le parer d’une réverbération toute naturelle. Aucune manipulation post-production n’a été opérée, il s’agit d’une expérience live laissée intacte. Le choix d’un tel lieu pour l’enregistrement fait certes perdre en “rusticité de terrain”, mais oriente davantage l’écoute vers l’hypnose.

Conçu à l’initiative du GMVL (Groupe Musiques vivantes de Lyon), dirigé par Bernard FORT, cet album s’avère un excellent complément au précédent album solo de DAVAASUREN, Chants diphoniques mongols, paru en 2007 aux éditions Lugdivine et produit lui aussi par le GMVL.

Mais dans la mesure où Bayarbaatar est également l’auteur d’œuvres novatrices en matière de danses soliste ou en groupe qui ont eu un impact sur le développement de la danse traditionnelle mongole, l’inclusion d’un DVD (ou au moins d’une piste vidéo) aurait été tout aussi souhaitable et bienvenue.

Label : www.arcmusic.co.uk

Stéphane Fougère

https://www.rythmes-croises.org/bayarbaatar-davaasuren-the-art-of-mongolian-khoomii-throat-singing/

Hatrack River Forum on Overtone Singing, USA, 2008 – 2009

  
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Author Topic: Tuvan Throat Singing FlyingCow
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posted July 27, 2009 10:14 PM                       For those of you on the east coast of the US, a group of Tuvan throat singers called Alash are currently touring.

I saw them this past weekend in Lowell, MA – and they’re awesome. A friend of mine I had studied abroad with back in ’98 is their manager and interpreter, and if not for him I’d likely never have had heard of this group, let alone had the experience of seeing them in person.

For those of you (like I was) who aren’t familiar with Tuvan throat singing, it’s a method of singing in which several tones and overtones are produced by a single human voice.

For a sample of what this sounds like (and some of the physics behind it), the group’s website is www.AlashEnsemble.com (lots of samples – be sure to check out the ones in the “learn about Tuvan throat singing section) – and they still have tour dates throughout the east coast until mid-August. They said they’re taking some time off after that, but are likely to return next year.

If you have the chance, it’s well worth checking out. Here is an article written about them, including an interview with my friend Sean. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged |  Eaquae Legit
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posted July 28, 2009 12:15 AM                       One of my housemates – a music composition PhD student – wrote a throatsinging piece. To do that, he had to be able to sing it.

I tell you, there is NOTHING on this earth like being woken at 2am by the sound of the devil and his hordes climbing your stairs. (Once we got used to it, it was no big deal, but it was a bit startling at first.) Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Corwin
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posted July 28, 2009 07:59 AM                      [Big Grin] Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged |  Lyrhawn
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posted July 28, 2009 08:30 AM                       I heard a trio of throat singers once. I think they were Mongolian. It was really, really cool. Quite unlike anything else I’d ever experienced. Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged |  Lisa
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posted July 28, 2009 09:23 AM                       I can whistle and hum at the same time. It sounds weird, sort of like a UFO. Some of what they do sounds very much like that. The hum stays on one tone and the whistle can vary. Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Lyrhawn
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posted July 28, 2009 09:27 AM                       Can’t everyone do that? Well, everyone who can whistle anyway. Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged |  BlackBlade
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posted July 28, 2009 10:59 AM                       quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Can’t everyone do that? Well, everyone who can whistle anyway. I know Jim Carrey does it in Dumb and Dumber,

“Tractor beam, whooom, sucked me right in.”

Everyone who can whistle can certainly do it, but you’ve got to actually figure it out. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Dogbreath
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posted July 28, 2009 12:46 PM                      quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Can’t everyone do that? Well, everyone who can whistle anyway. I just figured it out, but it took me about 5 minutes of trying. Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged |  BlackBlade
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posted July 28, 2009 12:47 PM                       quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Can’t everyone do that? Well, everyone who can whistle anyway.
I just figured it out, but it took me about 5 minutes of trying. Welcome to the ranks. [Big Grin] Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged |  FlyingCow
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posted July 28, 2009 01:32 PM                       Tuvan throat singing is quite a bit different than that. There’s no actual whistling involved, as all the higher pitches come from overtones in the throat itself. [Big Grin]

There are lots of samples on the website, both in audio and video format. I got the opportunity to hang out with a couple of the members of the group after the show, and seeing it in person is really cool.

There was a guy with a guitar who was playing spanish songs, but his strings kept breaking. When he got down to three, he stopped – but one of the Tuvan singers (Ayan-ool) took it and retuned it to what would be a three-string Tuvan instrument’s pitches. He and Nachyn then began singing at the table. It was awesome. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged |  Xann.
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posted July 28, 2009 03:36 PM                       quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
I can whistle and hum at the same time. It sounds weird, sort of like a UFO. Some of what they do sounds very much like that. The hum stays on one tone and the whistle can vary. I read this, now it has been fifteen minutes and I am an expert hum-whistler. My UFO noises will soon be the envy of everyone around. Posts: 549 | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged |  Samprimary
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posted July 28, 2009 04:37 PM                       I remember the first throat-singing we got. It was 60 Horses in My Herd Posts: 15417 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Orincoro
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posted July 28, 2009 05:01 PM                       Just a caution to anyone who actually decides to attempt this- misguided efforts can present a great deal of danger to the vocal chords. Even professional throat singers can cause exquisite damage to their chords- mainly causing lesions and nodes on the chords. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted July 28, 2009 07:52 PM                       That’s ridiculous. Throat singing is no more dangerous to your vocal chords than regular singing. The overtones are generated in the cavities of the nose and mouth.

BTW, anyone who can say the letters “e” and “r” is throat singing. The difference between the two letters is that by lifting the tongue away from the teeth, a different set of overtones is generated. If you sing a tone, and switch between these two letters, you should hear the overtones switch.

And yes, I can throat sing. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Lisa
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posted July 28, 2009 09:14 PM                       quote:Originally posted by Xann.:
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
I can whistle and hum at the same time. It sounds weird, sort of like a UFO. Some of what they do sounds very much like that. The hum stays on one tone and the whistle can vary.
I read this, now it has been fifteen minutes and I am an expert hum-whistler. My UFO noises will soon be the envy of everyone around. When I was 11, I went to overnight camp for the first time. One night, a while after lights out, I woke up and saw a light bobbing up and down outside the window. And I heard this unearthly noise. By this time, my bunkmates were up as well.

Turned out it was a counselor moving a coleman lantern up and down and doing the hum-whistle thing (which there ought to be a name for). I made him show me how he did it. It’s a fun party trick. Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Elizabeth
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posted July 28, 2009 10:32 PM                       This group was at GrassRoots in Ithaca, and I was not a fan, though it was interesting, for sure. Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged |  ketchupqueen
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posted July 29, 2009 12:34 AM                       I saw some when I was about 9. It triggered one of the worst headaches I’ve ever experienced. My dad thought I was being close-minded and ungrateful or something until I almost blacked out from the pain and he realized I was crying because it actually hurt.

I pretty much never want to hear it again. [Wink] Posts: 21181 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged |  AvidReader
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posted July 29, 2009 06:01 AM                       I’m apparently overtone impared. I listened to Daam Dozu and really didn’t notice anything. Bashtak Joke was obvious enough for me to hear it in places, but I thought it sounded like someone was using a mechanical larynx to sing.

The songs are very pretty, but my ear is apparently not well enough developed to fully appreciate them. Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged |  Orincoro
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posted July 29, 2009 06:44 AM                       quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
That’s ridiculous. Throat singing is no more dangerous to your vocal chords than regular singing. The overtones are generated in the cavities of the nose and mouth.
I was at least taught that it presented a danger do to straining of the vocal chords, by novices- I’m not saying real throat singing is deleterious, although I have been told by experts on the subject that it can be.

The overtones, by the way, can be generated in the nasal cavities and mouth as well as by the larynx and pharynx (there are many different ways of generating tones, and we do something of the equivalent in everyday speech, and particularly yelling), which can form nodes and calluses when stressed. Particularly, people who attempt to force their vocal chords to generate a fundamental below the natural register of their voices can cause paralysis of their vocal chords, done too often, this can lead to lasting damage. Some singers even suffer neurological damage similar to that of strings players who suffer from tendinitis- the parts of the brain necessary for invoking and storing muscle memory can be damaged over repetive and stressful movements.
I’m not making this up- you can’t make a declaration that this isn’t dangerous. It may be dangerous, for some people, if done in a certain way. But then of course, normal singing can also cause damage to these parts of the throat when it is done incorrectly. I’m just cautioning people that this is something they should research for themselves before attempting, does that bother you? Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted July 29, 2009 05:10 PM                       quote:I’m just cautioning people that this is something they should research for themselves before attempting, does that bother you? Would it bother you if you posted that singing “Row Row Row Your Boat” as a round was a lot of fun and I responded that anyone who attempts this can do “exquisite damage to their vocal chords?” It really is the same thing.

BTW, from FlyingCow’s original link quote:Tuvan throat singers can produce two or three, sometimes even four pitches simultaneously. The effect has been compared to that of a bagpipe. The singer starts with a low drone. Then, by subtle manipulations of his vocal tract and keen listening, he breaks up the sound, amplifying one or more overtones enough so that they can be heard as additional pitches while the drone continues at a lower volume. Despite what the term might suggest, throat singing does not strain the singer’s throat. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Orincoro
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posted July 29, 2009 05:25 PM                       Glenn, you’re not getting me on this. I said that it *can* cause damage, and I specifically said that it can cause damage to people who do it incorrectly, because they don’t know how to do it. I have been told this by a vocal expert, who is also an ethno-musicologist. It is really not the same damned thing. You don’t know everything in the universe, and you shouldn’t be shocked and appalled that someone else has heard different advice than you have. Please back off and allow people to disagree with you. Goddamn, I don’t even care about this, I was just relaying something I had been warned about as a singer myself. Your reaction is totally out of line. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted July 29, 2009 09:07 PM                       quote:You don’t know everything in the universe, and you shouldn’t be shocked and appalled that someone else has heard different advice than you have.No. But I know how to throat sing. Do you? If I tried to create harmonics while screaming, or singing outside of my range or something, then I would expect vocal damage. But the throat singing part would be irrelevant.

Did your ethno-musicologist friend know how to throat sing? It has almost nothing to do with the vocal chords, and mostly has to do with training your own ears to recognize when the harmonics are dividing. Once you can hear it the rest is just opening your throat or palette or moving your tongue to create the proper resonance. There simply isn’t any part of it that would put strain on your vocal chords.

And of course, I’ll point out once again that a renowned group of Tuvan throat singers, people who undoubtedly know a hell of a lot more about it than your ethno-musicologist, bothered to put in their website that it does not strain the singer’s throat. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted July 29, 2009 09:43 PM                       quote:I’m apparently overtone impared. I listened to Daam Dozu and really didn’t notice anything.I listened to it too, to see what you were missing. The answer is: not much. There are very few vocal overtones being used, and they are easily confused with the instruments being played.

Click on the link “learn about Tuvan Throat singing,” and listen to the specific examples without accompaniment. Remember that each recording is exactly one voice, and no other sounds. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  steven
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posted July 29, 2009 11:40 PM                       quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
Throat singing is no more dangerous to your vocal chords than regular singing. The overtones are generated in the cavities of the nose and mouth.

BTW, anyone who can say the letters “e” and “r” is throat singing. The difference between the two letters is that by lifting the tongue away from the teeth, a different set of overtones is generated. If you sing a tone, and switch between these two letters, you should hear the overtones switch.

Dude, that’s awesome! I was just sitting here, playing around with your directions, and I figured out how to do it! I’ve been wanting to learn for years, but I thought it was really hard to learn. This is cool. Are there any online tutorials that you suggest for getting better at it?

I’m going to be doing this all the time now, in the car, etc. LOL Posts: 3285 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged |  AvidReader
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posted July 30, 2009 05:35 AM                       quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
quote:I’m apparently overtone impared. I listened to Daam Dozu and really didn’t notice anything.I listened to it too, to see what you were missing. The answer is: not much. There are very few vocal overtones being used, and they are easily confused with the instruments being played.

Click on the link “learn about Tuvan Throat singing,” and listen to the specific examples without accompaniment. Remember that each recording is exactly one voice, and no other sounds.
Wow. On their own, those are pretty interesting. I can’t imagine a sound as subtle as the borbangnadyr (the water one) or the ezenggileer (the horse trot one) not getting lost in the rest of the music. Though, I suppose once you know what you’re listening for, it’s easier to pick it out. Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged |  Orincoro
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posted July 30, 2009 05:59 AM                       quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
quote:You don’t know everything in the universe, and you shouldn’t be shocked and appalled that someone else has heard different advice than you have.No. But I know how to throat sing. Do you? If I tried to create harmonics while screaming, or singing outside of my range or something, then I would expect vocal damage. But the throat singing part would be irrelevant.[/b]. Glenn, I’m not going to argue the facts with you. You’re being a dick. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged |  FlyingCow
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posted July 30, 2009 07:24 AM                       Orincoro, from my own conversations with Sean, Ayan-ool, and Nachyn, there seems to be nothing involved with throat singing that is in any way more straining to the vocal chords than other types of singing.

The Tuvans said that everyone they know at home throat sings, and do so from when they are small children. To them it’s just how singing is done – and to tell them it’s perhaps injurious would be like telling someone from the US that singing in the shower could hurt them.

I can understand it being a risk for someone who has no idea what they’re doing to try something that they *think* is throat singing, but really isn’t. There are ways to damage your vocal chords by straining them overmuch, true, but none of these things are necessary to throat sing.

Is there a chance that the source that gave you that information may have been misinformed?

AvidReader,

The video on the front page of their site has some pretty good examples (between 2:35 and 3:26 into it). With microphones, the voices definitely carry over the instrumentation when they are throat singing. It’s very neat.

The first time I saw it, I was looking for the flute on stage, and there wasn’t one. Though I have to say the “murgu” flute that they play is really cool – it almost sounds like wolf song. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged |  Orincoro
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posted July 30, 2009 08:15 AM                       quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow:

Is there a chance that the source that gave you that information may have been misinformed?
Of course, I just don’t like my character being assaulted because I dared to suggest that I had heard something different from what someone else believed. I’m more insulted about that than about the idea that I heard wrong. I hear misinformation all the time- that doesn’t bother me. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Papa Janitor
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posted July 30, 2009 10:09 AM                      Please refrain from the personal attacks and vulgar language. Posts: 441 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted July 30, 2009 06:10 PM                       quote:Dude, that’s awesome! I was just sitting here, playing around with your directions, and I figured out how to do it! I’ve been wanting to learn for years, but I thought it was really hard to learn. This is cool. Are there any online tutorials that you suggest for getting better at it?

I’m going to be doing this all the time now, in the car, etc. LOL Ok, here’s something that’s going to happen, if it hasn’t already. You’re going to say to your girlfriend, buddy, parent, etc. “Hey listen to this!” and they will stare blankly at you as you go “EEEE ARRRRRR EEEEEEE ARRRRR” because you can hear the overtones in your head, but you can’t project them outside yet. They might think that when you are all warmed up you’ll hold your arms out like wings and run around the room making banking turns.

But actually you do need the feedback, so go ahead and ask them to listen anyway. Or make recordings on your computer and play them back to see if you can hear it. Practicing in the car is pretty good, because the sound reflects off the window pretty well.

The only lessons I ever received in this was second hand from my brother and mother and my wife, who had seen a demonstration where the guy told them to sing the word “Greer” on one pitch. I don’t know if they even tried it, but I did. Then it was them that I asked to listen to me, and they thought I was making it up. Then a year later I showed them again, and they were amazed.

But up to this point they aren’t so much music as sound effects. I’ve been listening to the samples from this website in order to give it a more musical structure. I can do a simplified version of Sygyt and Xoomei, and I think I might get Ezenggileer with some practice, but I don’t know if I can get the rapid trilling of Borbangnadyr. It’s kind of like trying to sing George Thorogood’s “Bad to the Bone” when you can’t stutter the “b” fast enough. My mouth parts just don’t have the speed to do it.

I’m not sure what I’m listening to in the Kagyraa sample. It doesn’t sound like the harmonic is below the fundamental to me. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  ricree101
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posted July 31, 2009 08:48 PM                       Incidentally, I just recently watched a Feynman video that talked about his interest in Tuva, and his attempts to travel there. Posts: 2391 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Uprooted
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posted August 03, 2009 02:53 PM                       quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
Ok, here’s something that’s going to happen, if it hasn’t already. You’re going to say to your girlfriend, buddy, parent, etc. “Hey listen to this!” and they will stare blankly at you as you go “EEEE ARRRRRR EEEEEEE ARRRRR” because you can hear the overtones in your head, but you can’t project them outside yet. I laughed when I read this because I was just about to post that I tried it and all I heard inside my head was the EEE ARRRR EEE ARRRR – what overtones? Oh well. No “hey listen to this!” for me! I’ll go check out the site now and see if listening to the samples on there enlightens me any better. Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted August 03, 2009 05:43 PM                       I’m assuming Uprooted and Steven aren’t the same person. Steven said he heard the overtones, so that’s who I was responding to.

Uprooted: the key is to sing a single tone, rather than switching from E to R in the way that we speak. When we speak, we actually change pitch twice when we say the word “rear.” The “E” is at a slightly higher pitch. Think of the guards in wizard of Oz, singing “O-E-O” the pitch goes up in the middle. The thing is that the pitch change disguises the harmonic split, and we just think of it as a different phoneme, rather than noticing that our voice is producing multiple tones.

If you listen to the Xoomei sound sample from the link above, you’ll hear that he sings a single note, and then changes the harmonics around that note. So if you sing a note like that, and change from the E sound back to the R sound, you should hear the harmonics start to separate. It may take a little while before you notice it, but it will happen. Pay attention to the tip of your tongue while you change the sounds, that should help your awareness also. Remember that it’s more about listening than making it happen. It’s happening already. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  steven
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posted August 03, 2009 08:04 PM                       I can now control the pitch of the higher tone now, a little. I have a range of about a perfect 5th with the higher tone right now, it seems.

I actually told myself I’d not break this out on somebody until I got really good at it…but I got bored yesterday and yes, I did subject a lovely lady friend to my so-far pitiful singing. LOL

She was fairly unimpressed. [ROFL] Posts: 3285 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged |  FlyingCow
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posted August 07, 2009 06:19 AM                       Great video of an Alash Ensemble concert on the Kennedy Center website!

http://kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/artist_detail.cfm?artist_id=ALSHENSMBL#

It’s a full 56 minute concert, with english explanation/song set up by my friend Sean. Very Cool! Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged |  FlyingCow
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posted August 09, 2009 08:25 AM                       Went to see Alash again as part of a library fundraising benefit in Lancaster, PA last night. Great show to a packed room of about 40o-450 people. Standing ovation led to an encore, which was very cool as it wasn’t a song I’d heard from them before.

Only a few more performances left for anyone who wants to catch them live before they go back home to Tuva.

Tonight – Philadelphia, PA (last free show)
Tomorrow – Havre de Grace, MD
Friday, 8/14 – Burlington, VT
Saturday, 8/15 – Brooklyn, NY
Sunday, 8/16 – Wappingers Falls, NY

Info on the venues is on their website. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged |  Glenn Arnold
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posted August 09, 2009 10:42 AM                       Whoa! Wappingers Falls is right near me. I can’t think of any venues though. I’ll have to check the website. Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged |  ricree101
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posted August 16, 2009 03:24 PM                       Coincidentally, I just came across the University of Chicago Scavenger Hunt. One entry on the list was to have the best submission to the WBEZ annoying music show.

Turns out, the winning submission was a rendition of “Sounds of the Yak” by a Tuvan throat singer.

link(with sound clip from the show) Posts: 2391 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | 
  
          
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Regional Distribution of KHOREKTEER and its typology / International Scientific Center of Khoomei, Tuva

Regional Distribution of KHOREKTEER and its typology
Method of performance KHOREKTEER  The method of khorekteer itself is the basis for all archaic styles and therefore each  kind of melodic singing is  unthinkable  without introduction based on this method. 
Other traditional methods of performance whichrequire special professional skills    They exist together with other styles as sub-styles and differ by subtle technical traits in performance. They do not force these styles out and become an integral part enriching their structure. 
Five  styles are  recognized in Tuvan  solo  double-voiced  singing.  These  are five styles: khoomei, sygyt, kargyraa, ezengileer, and borbannadyr  each of which include many  sub-styles.
TYPOLOGY       Style Resonance zone, drone Character of breathing Articulation Melody and musical-expressive specifics Khoomei Middle register F, F sharp, G can be sung with and without words, chest and mouth resonators  Basic (khorekteer), smooth breathing =, \ Overtone melodic (8th-12th overtones) Borbannadyr Lower or middle register, mouth or partially nose resonator Khorekteer, spasmodic rhythm, modulations, middle tension =, \ Without and with melodization Sygyt High and tense Constricted breathing, very tense йо, й, йа can be alternated with text Overtone melodic (8th-12th overtones), song melodic with vibrato Kargyraa Low guttural sound, the open mouth resonates Khorekteer, smooth breathing, open mouth, can be sung with text а, =, \, э open Drone with third turns, overtone melodic (6th-12th overtones, song melodic Steppe kargyraa Low, open, chest, soft, velvet timbre. Outward resonator  Very long breathing а, =, \, э open Overtone or song melodic (6th-12thg overtones) Ezengileer Middle register, vibration with lips Smooth breathing, rhythmic pulsation as in ambling of a horse а, =, и, \, э, ю, я with vibration Quiet overtone melodic, high whistling timbre Chylandyk F sharp, G, middle register, singing without words, mouth resonator Middle in length breathing =, \. Nasal long sound   Folk terminology reflected the timbre of these styles, both as independent timbres and in comparison with other means of sound-extraction.  
KHOOMEI  A bright sound, by its timbre, of a humming middle tessitura, is designated in tales khoomei. Khooledir khoomeileerge cher sirgeini bergen, “during the humming of khoomei, the earth trembled”.  According to our observations the style khoomei  can  be  considered  an  initial  or  basic  style. Khoomeizhis  of  old  and  young  generations  say  that  khoomei  is  the  father  of a forefather of khorekteer. The  majority  of  musicians  prefer  this  style  because  of  its relatively  convenient  sound-extraction  in the middle  register. Deep  sounds  of  khoomei, especially  in  lower  register, resemble  the  unison  of  oboe  and  clarinet. In  ergi  khoomei (old  khoomei), the  basic  ostinato  sound  is  more  deep  than  in the  borbannadyr  style  and  has a more  expressed  overtone  melody. The sounds in khoomei  are  executed  with  closed  lips  as  pronouncing  the  consonant  “v”. This  style  is  intermediate  in  timbre  between  the  sounds  extracted  by schalmeis and trumpets. It  is  mostly  characterized  by  power, richness  in  tone, and melodiousness. In  Tuvan  heroic  tales throat singing appears  as  a   firmly  established  musical  phenomenon. For  example, “a bogatyr (an  epic  hero)  performs  khoomei  with  the  force  of a thousand  people, his  singing  makes  the  earth  and  the  sky  shudder, and  brings  mountain  tops  crashing  down”. Though  the power of this  singing  is  exaggerated to the extreme, the  storyteller  describes  the  force  of  sound  emission  very  accurately. In connection with this  we  should  give  a delicate  remark  of  B.I. Tatarintsev  who  investigated the place and role of  throat  singing  in  Tuvan  epics. He  wrote: “The  traveling  hero’s  throat  singing  is  characterized  by  stock  epithets  of  one  type yndynnyg, yiangylyg, syrynnyg “doleful, plaintive, drawling”  which, apparently, characterize  the uneasy  emotional  state  of  a  hero”. The  researcher  gives  an  example  from  a  variant  of a lyric  tale  about  Khan-Khulyuk. After singing the hero’s “pining chest expands and his crowded thoughts broaden”. Thus, Tatarintsev was the first to note this function of throat singing: to pass time and make oneself comfortable on journey. At  first  glance  it  seems  that  it  is  impossible  to  think  about  a  more  recent  origin  of the khoomei  style  in  comparison  to  other  styles  because  I  find  the same principle of articulation in all the styles  in  the  framework  of  the  given  traditional  musical  culture. However, if  we  delve  deeper  into  the  nature  of khoomei,  with  its  ways  of  intonation, the  assumption  the  recent  origin  of  khoomei  is  well  supported. The  style  of  khoomei, which holds a transitional position between ordinary and double-voiced singing often performs  a  utilitarian  function  as  a  lullaby  song  in  the  special  style  opei  khoomeii (lullaby  khoomei). When performing  this style the  performer  accompanies  his  singing  by  a  rocking  of  his  body  from  one  side  to  another. The  performer  uses  clavicular  breathing. He  sings  the  words  by  moving  his  lips  slightly. The  movements  of  his  lips  are  intermediate  between  speaking  and  singing. While  lulling  a  baby, the  performer  sings through his nose. There  are  scarcely  any  overtone  melodies  in  his  singing. Before  people  the  performer  sings  loudly, with  a  great  support  of the  diaphragm  and  with  a  distinct  pressure  of  pectoral  resonators  while  alone  in  the  yurt, lulling  a baby, the  performer  sings  quietly.
SYGYT    For the designation of a high timbre, there existed the term of sygyt cyyrladyr cygyrtyrga kok deer ayazyp turgan “during the piercing singing of sygyt, the blue sky became clearer”. In the  sygyt  style,  overtones  are  produced  in  a high  whistling  timbre similar to that of the  piccolo in the same register. The  basic  ostinato  moves between the middle tones of the Great octave throughout the piece from la of the first octave to la of the third octave. In sygyt  style  the  vowels  are  not  articulated and the sounds, in  contrast  to  those in  other  styles, are  produced at  an  optimal  strain  of  respiratory  ways. The  main  feature distinguishing  sygyt from  any  other  style  is in the technique of sound extraction: the  root  of  the  tongue  is  moved  forward  and  the melody  is  mostly  produced  by the vibration  of  the  uvula  and its approaching the soft palate. In  sygyt  style  the  uvula  is  the  main  organ  which  regulates the  stream  of  air. Double  voice  usually  appears  in  low  and  high  registers  simultaneously. When  one  voice  is  produced  the  overtones  are  absent. Typical  of the  sygyt  style  are  melodies  ascending  to  high  pitch  sounds. For  example, in kishteer performed by Tumat Gennady, one can hear a glissando ascending an octave up from the 10th and 12th overtones of the 2nd basic ostinato note. Additional overtone sounds  occur as a  tremolo between  two  sounds which also differentiates the  sygyt  style  from  other  styles.
KARGYRAA    A low sound was designated among people as kargyraa kaargyraalaarga khayaa dash kaanayndyr bustup badip turgan, “during the singing of kargyraa, the sheer cliffs vibrated, rumbled, and fell down”. The folk performers divide this style in sub-styles by  timbre  and  pitch. Khovu  kargyraazy (steppe kargyraazy) has a higher, lighter  and  softer  sound while  a lower, louder sound characterizes kozhagar kargyraazy(mountain or cave kargyraazy). The  main  form of the  kargyraa  style  is  singing  with  a  clear  logical semantic  connection  of sounds. It is based on ornamented melodies of wide breath. Timbre  contrast  and  register  amplitude  distinguish different  sub-styles. Among these sub-styles khovu kargyraazy (steppe kargyraa)  is one of the most popular sub-styles of kargyraa. Khovu  kargyraazy is characterized by drawling, soft, and broad sound. This  style  is  performed  to  show  the  spaciousness  of  flat  steppes and mountains. An introduction  with  text  is usually sung. The  basic  ostinato  sound  is  produced  with a half-open  mouth. Overtones alternates with vowels. One of  the vowels а, э, =, \ corresponds  to  each  overtone.             Dag kargyraazy (mountain kargyraa) is also popular. This style is more stern. It expresses the power of the mountains. The timbre is more dense, nasal, and dimly.               The third style is dumchuk  kargyraazy (nasal  kargyraa). A  characteristic  feature  of  this  sub-style  is  a  regular  release  of  air  with a sharp double  inhalation  and  exhalation  through the nose and  mouth. The powerful  vibration  has  a  positive  effect  on  performer’s  lungs and  body.  According to my informants singing in this way  makes  it  possible  to  relax  and  concentrate  oneself  spiritually. When  singing, the  performer  does  not  feel  any  disharmony. The frequency  range  of the produced  sound  is  quite  wide. The sound is more velvet-like, and softer due to the use of nose resonator. This  is a typical style of the traditional Mongun-Taiga performance  school.
BORBANNADYRThe borbannadyr  style  is  related  to the khoomei  style  in respect to intonation. A melodious  introduction using khorekteer  is  performed  with  the  same  position  of  lips (close  to  each  other)  as  with the  khoomei  style. Timbre  norm, intonization  with  falsetto  inflection, narrow modal scale with short stable formulae, and ostinato  strophe  rhythm  with  ornamentation  are  common  to  these  two  styles.   The  mechanism  of  sound  extraction, especially  acoustic  manipulations,  rather  than the steady  melodious  turns  characteristic of the  khoomei  style is  a  more  important  point  in  borbannadyr  style. The coexistence  of  these  two  styles  can  be  explained  as a manifestation  of  the  features  of  an  early  folk  tradition  which  is  characterized  by  an organic  relationship  of  melodic  expression. During a period of singing the tempo increases and the melody becomes more complex, descending by  leaps  from  the twelfth to the seventh overtone, more  rarely  to  the eighth overtone. The  ostinato  sound  remains  intact  but  its  pitch  occasionally  oscillates  within  the three  middle  sounds  of  the Great octave.             Contrary  to  khoomei, the melodious phrase of which is performed within one breath, the borbannadyr  style is  always  interrupted, with the process of breathing plays a lesser role for articulation. The  performer  of  this  style  usually  begins  by reciting  of  the  words  of  a  song typical  only  to the  borbannadyr  style. Here  is  an  example:               Bolur-daa  bol, bolbas-daa  bol            Whether it comes out or itdoesn’t             Borbannadyp  berein  shumna            I shall sing borbannadyr anyways               In  rhythmical  respect  the  tune  is  more  schematic. This  is the  tendency  of  the  schematization  of the  borbannadyr  style  that  involves  outward  ostinato  repetition of musical turn. Similarities  in  the  techniques  of the   khoomei  and  borbannadyr  styles  makes  it  possible  to  pass  from  one  style  to  another. In the  khoomei  style  the lower voice  stops  on  a  sustained (ostinato)  sound  and  the  singer  can  select overtones (which  create  additional  melody, melodious  recitation  with  words  of  a  song)  from  this  sound  while  in the  borbannadyr  style  the  sound  seems  to  throw  away  rolling  sounds  without  words. The  tune  is  based  on an  intonization  approximate  to  onomatopoeia but this is, more likely, not a concrete but somewhat generalized imitation. Therefore, the  melodies  in  khoomei  style,  by  its  very  nature,  are  of  a  radically  different  kind  of  those  in  borbannadyr  style. What’s  more,  if  one  compares  the  peculiarities  of  the  timbres  of  styles of the above styles one  can  get  additional  idea  of  a  concrete  style  too.             In  ensemble  performance of khoomei, kargyraa, and sygyt styles (except onomatopoeic – ezengileer and borbannadyr styles)  the  singers  seek  to  keep  to basic forms, producing  only  slight  additional  tones  which are mostly  ornamental. The  style  borbannadyr  is  traditionally  sung  individually. This  makes it possible  for  a  performer  of  this  style  to  introduce  some  individual  traits  in  the  form  of his rhythmical  intonization. This  style  is  among  the  main  independent  styles  because  it  has  its  own  structure,  a  separate  mechanism  of  sound  extraction, and a  characteristic  timbre  coloring. The  performance  of  this  style does not  require the use of other styles. With regards to  its  tessitura, register, rhythm, and  structure of melodies, borbannadyr  style  represents  quite an independent artistic phenomenon which  can  be  optionally  synthesized  in  order  to  decorate  the  melody  of other  styles. For  example, there are synthesized styles such as borbannadyr  of  sygyt, borbannadyr  of  kargyraa, or borbannadyr  of  khoomei
ESENGILEEREzengileer also have  their  own  peculiarities of rhythm, timbre, and  intonation. Ezengileer  represents  an  independent  style of khorekteer. According  to  old  people, ezengileer  style  has  completely  retained  its  meaning  up  to today.  The  style  itself, as  assumed  by  some  researchers,  seems to be  relatively  recent  in origin. The appearance of   this  style was possible not earlier than 1st millenium AD, that  is, in the time  when the appearance of stirrup in horse harness could  have  a  perceptible  influence  upon  Tuvan music. It is believed that the ezengileer  style  was  formed later than the sygyt  style  but, undoubtedly, it was formed on its basis and in  a  constant  interaction.             If  we compare ezengileer with sygyt it is not difficult to note that  the  performance  of  ezengileer  differs from sygyt by  its slow  singing  and  distinct  scancion. Another distinctive  feature  of the  ezengileer  style  is  the periodic release  of  air  through the  nose with a sharp double exhalation. The  sound-formation  of  styles  is  preconditioned  by  aesthetic  prerequisites, acoustic  peculiarities  of the means  of  sound  extraction, and timber. The  melodious  introduction  is  absent  in  ezengileer  style. Ezengileer style is represented a peculiar, independent phenomenon in function also and  its performance  is  connected  to  horse  riding. The  timbre  of  this  style  is  softer  than  that of the  sygyt  style. The  overtone  melodies  appear  usually  on  8th, 9th, 11th, 12th, and 13th  overtones  from  the  low ostinato sound. 
SUBSTILESIn the  kargyraa  style  alone  one  can  count  more  that  five common freely interchanged motifs: khovu  kargyraazy (steppe  kargyraa), kashpal  kargyraazy (hill kargyraa), dag  kargyraazy (mountain  kargyraa), kozhagar  kargyraazy (mound  kargyraa), oidupaa  kargyraazy (kargyraa  of  the  singer  Oidupaa) and so on.
KHOREKTEER SYGYT KARGYRAA KHOOMEI BORBANNADYR EZENGILEER KISHTEER     DESPEN BORBAN  
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http://www.khoomei.narod.ru/khorekteereng.html